2019 Game Informer
大森滋与增田顺一谈《剑／盾》
大森滋 × 增田顺一
Game Informer在试玩《宝可梦 剑·盾》后，就冠军丹帝、旷野地带互动、极巨团体战等问题采访了大森滋与增田顺一。
Contents 本篇 17 章
- 让玩家从游戏最早期阶段就能与联盟冠军丹帝进行日常互动，这个想法背后是什么？
- 丹帝的披风上有各种代言和广告，其中一个是 Game Freak 的标志。Game Frea...
- 当你在旷野地带时，是否必须把游戏设定成某种状态，其他玩家才能与你互动？
- 你之前提到，想借这次在主机上的首个新世代，努力做出“终极”的宝可梦游戏。你认为这次冒险的流...
- [企划总监]岩尾和昌提到，极巨团体战的难度已经达到甚至超过了此前主线系列中我们见过的任何内...
- 宝可梦的时间线到底是怎么回事？
- 我们会在《剑／盾》里看到美录坦和美录梅塔吗？
- 我们在东京聊过，伽勒尔地区的灵感来自你们为《太阳／月亮》做媒体巡访时去的英国。那你们为《剑...
- 还有别的地方吗？
- 我们终于要有一款以英格兰为原型的宝可梦游戏了！
- 显然，之前我们关于《剑／盾》中道馆数量的对话引发了一些困惑。不过，从这些困惑中，玩家们对可...
- 在最初的引述中，你说过，在故事里，道馆每年都会进行对战，以决定哪些属于 major lea...
- 在这款游戏中，你多久会在体育场里进行一次对战？
- 宝可梦游戏总是成对发售，那么团队是在开发的哪个阶段从一个可执行版本变成两个可执行版本的？
- 所以这似乎是在流程中相当靠后的阶段？
- 你见过那些深入剖析宝可梦解剖结构的画师吗？
- 这样的人就是现实中的宝可梦博士吗？
If you’ve been following our coverage of Pokémon Sword and Shield, you know we’ve covered a ton of topics, such as autosave, drawing Pokémon, and the inspiration behind the Galar region. However, in the time since we spent a full day in Game Freak’s Tokyo offices for this month’s Pokémon Sword and Shield cover story, we’ve thought of several new questions to ask the development team.
如果你一直在关注我们对《宝可梦 剑·盾》的报道，就会知道我们已经聊过很多话题，比如自动保存、绘制宝可梦，以及伽勒尔地区背后的灵感。不过，自从我们在 Game Freak 东京办公室待了整整一天、为本月的《宝可梦 剑·盾》封面故事取材之后，我们又想到了几个新问题要问开发团队。
Thankfully, Pokémon Sword and Shield director Shigeru Ohmori and producer Junichi Masuda recently visited Redwood City, Calif. just outside of San Francisco, giving us an opportunity to not only play the first hour and a half of Pokémon Sword and Shield, but also catch up with them about several additional topics related to the upcoming Switch games.
所幸，《宝可梦 剑·盾》总监大森滋和制作人增田顺一最近来到了加州旧金山郊外的雷德伍德城，让我们不仅有机会试玩《宝可梦 剑·盾》开头一个半小时的内容，还能就这两款即将登陆 Switch 的游戏聊几个额外的话题。
Game Informer
What was the idea behind having regular interactions with the League Champion, Leon, from the earliest stages in the game?
让玩家从游戏最早期阶段就能与联盟冠军丹帝进行日常互动，这个想法背后是什么？
大森滋
One of the biggest reasons for having you interact with the champion and being shown the prowess of the champion so early is that Sword and Shield is a continuation of traditional RPGs like X and Y, Sun and Moon. So really conveying that aspect of you’re going to go on your journey, doing the gym battles, and there’s this really powerful champion you want to aspire to defeat. That was one of the aspects we wanted to convey, so we put the champion in the story much more.
让你与冠军互动、并在这么早的阶段就展示冠军的实力，其中一个最大的原因是，《剑／盾》是《X／Y》《太阳／月亮》这类传统 RPG 的延续。所以，真正传达出这一点很重要：你将踏上旅程，去打道馆战，而有一位非常强大的冠军是你想要去击败的。这是我想传达的方面之一，所以我们在故事里加入了更多冠军的戏份。
Game Informer
On Leon’s cape, he has all kinds of endorsements and advertisements. One of them was the Game Freak logo. Game Freak has a history of being in Pokémon games. Does that mean we’ll also be able to find the studio in Galar?
丹帝的披风上有各种代言和广告，其中一个是 Game Freak 的标志。Game Freak 有在宝可梦游戏里登场的传统。这是否意味着我们也能在伽勒尔找到这家工作室？
大森滋
Good eye on you! [Laughs] I hope players will discover for themselves whether it’s there or not.
眼力不错！[笑] 它到底在不在，我希望玩家自己去发现。
Game Informer
When you’re in the Wild Area, do you have to set your game to a certain status so players can interact with you?
当你在旷野地带时，是否必须把游戏设定成某种状态，其他玩家才能与你互动？
大森滋
So how it works is there’s this feature called the Y-Comm, and you can activate that to broadcast your status or what you want to do, like, “I want to trade,” “I want to battle,” or whatever, and then that gets broadcasted out to anyone you’ve been matched up with in the back end. They’ll see that, and if they want to reply or if they’re also saying they want to battle, it’ll match you together and then it goes into a synchronous connection.
它的运作方式是这样的：有一个叫 Y-Comm 的功能，你可以激活它来广播你的状态或你想做的事，比如“我想交换”“我想对战”之类的，然后这会广播给后台匹配到的任何人。他们会看到，如果他们想回应，或者他们也在说想对战，就会把你们匹配到一起，然后进入同步连接。
大森滋
One of the cool things you can do now is – in previous games, we had Wonder Trade where you could throw out a Pokémon and it would find someone to trade with and the trade would happen and it would save the game. It was a very active process. We’ve kind of improved that. So now, [with Surprise Trades], you can choose a Pokémon for trading, and then it’ll happen in the background, so while you’re just adventuring, it’ll find someone to trade with and after some times progresses, you’ll suddenly see that your Pokémon was traded for something else. We found a way to make it happen more seamlessly without having to save and actively do it one at a time.
现在你能做的一件很酷的事是——在以前的游戏里，我们有奇迹交换，你可以扔出一只宝可梦，它会找到人交换，交换完成后会保存游戏。那是一个非常主动的过程。我们算是改进了这一点。所以现在，[通过惊喜交换]，你可以选一只宝可梦用于交换，然后它会在后台进行，你只管冒险，它会找到人交换，过一段时间后，你会突然发现你的宝可梦被换成了别的东西。我们找到了一种方式，让它更无缝地进行，不必保存、也不必一次一只地主动操作。
增田顺一
And it’s also not just exclusive to the Wild Area. I know we’re just talking about the Wild Area right now, but this is probably going to be one of the more popular features that players engage with in the game.
而且这也不仅限于旷野地带。我知道我们现在只是在聊旷野地带，但这很可能会成为玩家在游戏里使用的更受欢迎的功能之一。
Game Informer
You spoke earlier about striving to make the “ultimate” Pokémon game with this first new generation on consoles. Do you think the length of this adventure is comparable to other Pokémon games?
你之前提到，想借这次在主机上的首个新世代，努力做出“终极”的宝可梦游戏。你认为这次冒险的流程长度，和其他宝可梦游戏相比如何？
大森滋
I think it’s hard to go into details of that, but in terms of the volume or the amount of content in the main adventure, it’s comparable to other Pokémon generations that we’ve played. I think there’s a lot of interesting activities that, for example, completing the Pokédex or really going out into the Wild Area and engaging with those mechanics, that’ll add a lot of replay value for players who are looking to get really hardcore into that.
我觉得很难细说，但就主线冒险的体量或内容量而言，和我们玩过的其他宝可梦世代是相当的。我认为有很多有趣的活动，比如完成宝可梦图鉴 App，或者真正走进旷野地带去体验那些机制，这些都会为想要深入钻研的硬核玩家带来很多重复游玩的价值。
增田顺一
I feel like a lot of players these days will typically burn through content and try to go to the ending as fast as they can. From our perspective, we spent three years making it! [Laughs] We do hope that players will take their time through the adventure, but yeah, that’s my perspective.
我感觉现在很多玩家会一口气把内容刷完，尽量最快打到结局。从我们的角度看，我们可是花了三年做出来的！[笑] 我们确实希望玩家能慢慢享受这段冒险，不过，这就是我的看法。
Game Informer
[Planning director] Kazumasa Iwao brought up that Max Raid Battles have a difficulty as high as or above anything we’ve seen in the mainline series to this point. Are there any other parts in Sword and Shield that you think will be difficult for players?
[企划总监]岩尾和昌提到，极巨团体战的难度已经达到甚至超过了此前主线系列中我们见过的任何内容。你认为《剑／盾》里还有其他部分会让玩家觉得困难吗？
大森滋
With Max Raid Battles, we have the star ranking system and I think what he’s talking about was when you go to five stars – the highest-ranked ones – they are quite difficult. I’ve tried to play them on my own and lost many times. When you get to the highest stuff, you need really good team coordination to defeat them. I can’t really go into details, but I can say that there’s other content for players to engage with over the long term and more deeply after you finish the main story.
极巨团体战有星级系统，我想他说的应该是五星——最高星级的那类——确实相当难。我自己试着单人打过，输了很多次。打到最高难度时，需要非常好的团队配合才能击败它们。细节我不便多说，但我可以说，在玩家通关主线之后，还有别的长期、更深入的内容可以体验。
Game Informer
What’s the deal with the Pokémon timeline?
宝可梦的时间线到底是怎么回事？
增田顺一
It starts to get a little complicated if you pay too much attention to timelines. Like, there might be a professor that appears and it wouldn’t make sense at all if we applied that kind of timeline logic. So we try not to apply it too rigorously. Maybe one hint is that if a character is appearing with Professor Oak, they’re living in the same era. Rather than some series where it makes sense to have the timeline progress as you go and the story evolve, the approach that Pokémon takes is expanding the world, like what the regions are, and making it richer as we go. Rather than a timeline, it’s more of a physical space thing.
如果太在意时间线，事情就会变得有点复杂。比如，可能会出现某位博士，要是套用那种时间线逻辑，就完全说不通了。所以我们尽量不把它套得太严格。也许有一个线索是，如果某个角色和大木博士一起出现，那他们就生活在同一个时代。不像某些系列，时间线随作品推进、故事随之演变才说得通，宝可梦采取的做法是扩展世界，比如各个地区是什么样，并随着作品不断让它更丰富。与其说是时间线，不如说是物理空间上的东西。
Game Informer
Are we seeing Meltan and Melmetal in Sword and Shield?
我们会在《剑／盾》里看到美录坦和美录梅塔吗？
增田顺一
Hm! No comment!
嗯！无可奉告！
Game Informer
We spoke in Tokyo about how the Galar region was inspired by the media tour you did for Sun and Moon, which took you to the U.K. Where are you doing media tours for Sword and Shield?
我们在东京聊过，伽勒尔地区的灵感来自你们为《太阳／月亮》做媒体巡访时去的英国。那你们为《剑／盾》做媒体巡访去了哪里？
增田顺一
Redwood! [Laughs]
红木城！[笑]
Game Informer
Anywhere else?
还有别的地方吗？
增田顺一
London, actually.
其实是伦敦。
Game Informer
Finally, we’ll get a Pokémon game based on the England!
我们终于要有一款以英格兰为原型的宝可梦游戏了！
增田顺一
[Laughs]
[笑]
Game Informer
Obviously, there was some confusion stemming from an earlier conversation we had regarding the number of gyms in Sword and Shield. However, from the confusion, people were very excited about the possibility of a dark-type gym. Can you say whether or not players battle a dark-type gym in Sword or Shield?
显然，之前我们关于《剑／盾》中道馆数量的对话引发了一些困惑。不过，从这些困惑中，玩家们对可能出现恶属性道馆表现出了极大的兴奋。你能透露玩家是否会在《剑／盾》中挑战恶属性道馆吗？
大森滋
I don’t want to say. [Laughs] Sorry!
我不想说。[笑] 抱歉！
Game Informer
In the initial quote, you said that, in the story, the gyms battle every year to determine which is in the major league or minor league. Is there a possibility that over time, they’ll be rotated in the game?
在最初的引述中，你说过，在故事里，道馆每年都会进行对战，以决定哪些属于 major league 或 minor league。有没有可能随着时间推移，它们在游戏中会轮换？
大森滋
[Laughs] It is just a background to the story. I can’t really say any more than that.
[笑] 这只是故事的背景设定。我不能再多说了。
Game Informer
How frequently do you battle in stadiums in this game?
在这款游戏中，你多久会在体育场里进行一次对战？
大森滋
That’s where all the gym battles take place, so there are at least eight opportunities to play in them.
道馆对战都在那里进行，所以至少会有八次在那里游玩的机会。
Game Informer
Since Pokémon games are always released in pairs, at what point in development does the team go from developing one executable to two executables?
宝可梦游戏总是成对发售，那么团队是在开发的哪个阶段从一个可执行版本变成两个可执行版本的？
增田顺一
They obviously share the same underlying systems, so throughout the early part of development, when we’re developing those core systems, it’ll be a single version. It’s really when we start getting into more of which Pokémon appear in which game, and kind of the data table stuff, where they split into two different versions where we have to manage both versions.
它们显然共用同一套底层系统，所以在开发前期，也就是我们在做那些核心系统的时候，是单一版本。真正开始涉及哪些宝可梦出现在哪款游戏里、以及数据表之类的东西时，才会分成两个不同的版本，我们就得同时管理两个版本。
Game Informer
So it seems that it’s fairly late in the process?
所以这似乎是在流程中相当靠后的阶段？
增田顺一
Yeah. Definitely the latter half of development. In terms of the conceptual phase, we always start with two versions in mind, but then in development, you’re building the core systems first and then splitting it up. It also depends on the project. Like, the Let’s Go, Pikachu and Eevee games were split much earlier in development than these ones for example.
是的。肯定是在开发的后半段。就概念阶段而言，我们一开始总是想着要做两个版本，但到了开发阶段，你是先搭建核心系统，然后再拆分。这也取决于项目。比如《Let’s Go，皮卡丘》和《Let’s Go，伊布》这两款游戏，拆分就比这次这两款要早得多。
增田顺一
Of course, it can actually be problematic sometimes because the team, when we’re test-playing the games internally before we actually go into the formal debug process, people have their favorites for which version. For example, for Let’s Go, Pikachu and Eevee, a lot of the team preferred Eevee, and they’d always be playing that, and that would be more polished and in a better state. For the Pikachu version, we had to kind of then make up for lost time later on. What about Sword and Shield? You probably have more people playing Sword, right? Do you have more bugs in Shield? [Laughs]
当然，这有时其实会带来问题，因为在正式进入调试流程之前、团队内部试玩的时候，大家会偏爱某个版本。比如《Let’s Go，皮卡丘》和《Let’s Go，伊布》，团队里很多人更喜欢伊布，总是玩那个版本，那个版本也就打磨得更好、状态更佳。至于皮卡丘版本，我们后来就得把落下的进度补回来。那《剑／盾》呢？大概玩《剑》的人更多吧？是不是《盾》里的bug更多？[笑]
大森滋
[Laughs] No, no! They’re both good!
[笑]不，不！两个版本都很好！
增田顺一
In the end, we do focus on debugging both versions the same, but when you first do that split, there’s definitely some internal favoritism that can create some lopsidedness.
最终我们会同样重视两个版本的调试，但刚拆分的时候，内部确实会有些偏爱，可能造成一些不均衡。
增田顺一
PokéNatomy: The Science of Pokémon (An Unofficial Guide) on Etsy
Etsy上的《PokéNatomy：宝可梦的科学（非官方指南）》
Game Informer
Have you seen those artists out there doing dives into the anatomy of Pokémon?
你见过那些深入剖析宝可梦解剖结构的画师吗？
增田顺一
I think it’s really interesting to see people try to take like a scientific analysis approach to Pokémon and try and discover the mysteries of them. There’s actually a book that came out in Japan a long time ago. It’s like this fake science research division or something like that. They came up with a book that tried to explain Pokémon from a scientific perspective if they were to exist.
我觉得看到人们尝试用科学分析的方法来研究宝可梦、试图揭开它们的谜团，这真的很有意思。其实很久以前日本出过一本书。它像是一个虚构的科学研究部门之类的。他们出了一本书，试图从科学的角度解释宝可梦，假设它们真的存在的话。
Game Informer
Are people like that the real-life Pokémon professors?
这样的人就是现实中的宝可梦博士吗？
增田顺一
Yeah, I think that would work. [Laughs]
是的，我觉得可以这么说。[笑]
增田顺一
Pokémon Sword and Shield launch on Switch November 15. For more coverage on these games, check out our exclusive coverage hub by clicking on the banner below.
《宝可梦 剑·盾》将于11月15日在Switch上发售。想了解更多关于这些游戏的内容，请点击下方的横幅查看我们的独家报道中心。