[访谈翻译] Eurogamer 独家专访：增田顺一与大森滋谈灵感来源、葱游兵与全国图鉴风波下的创作者压力
2019年10月《宝可梦 剑·盾》发售前夕，Eurogamer 主编 Chris Tapsell 在伦敦专访主创增田顺一与大森滋。主创首度辟谣‘葱游兵并非金银废案复活，而是考察英国农贸市场被粗大水韭深深震撼后的全新骑士创想’；详述团队深入英格兰乡村、康沃尔、蒸汽机车博物馆及下午茶司康饼的文化采风；正面回应全国图鉴删减（Dexit）带来的玩家舆论反弹，增田顺一坦言看到负面恶评‘作为创作者内心难免消沉’，但详述 Switch 高清化与营地交互对资产质量呈指数级增长的客观挑战；同时解析了呐喊队作为偶像粉圈应援团的幽默设计，以及旷野地带向非线性开放世界探索的里程碑意义。
增田顺一大森滋克里斯·塔普塞尔
逐段译读
独家专访 Game Freak 增田顺一与大森滋：葱游兵的灵感、英国采风与全国图鉴风波下的创作者心境
Game Freak's Junichi Masuda and Shigeru Ohmori on Inspiration, Sirfetch'd, and Pressure
原文
There have been a few ups and downs for Game Freak, in the build up to Pokémon Sword and Shield’s launch. The initial reveal of Galar, the game’s UK-inspired setting, was perhaps a tad lukewarm, and the decision to move away from a full, eight or nine hundred-strong Pokédex brought outcry from the predictably noisy sections of Pokémon fans.
译文
在《宝可梦 剑／盾》发售前的筹备阶段，Game Freak 经历了一些波折。最初公开伽勒尔地区——这个以英国为灵感的舞台时，反响或许有些平淡；而决定放弃收录全部八九百只宝可梦的全国图鉴，也引来了意料之中喧闹的宝可梦粉丝群体的强烈抗议。
原文
But then, new Pokémon like Wooloo have charmed, and twists on old favourites, like the brilliant Sirfetch’d and Galarian my-little-Ponyta, have gone down a storm. Having now played the enchanting first hours of Sword and Shield, too, the game’s typical charm has once again started to shine through.
译文
但随后，像毛辫羊这样的新宝可梦俘获了人心，而对旧宠的巧妙改造，比如出色的葱游兵和伽勒尔形态的小火马（宛如小马宝莉），也大受欢迎。在亲自体验了《剑／盾》开头几小时的迷人内容后，游戏一贯的魅力再次闪耀出来。
原文
For Game Freak it must have been quite the ride. I spoke to veteran lead producer Junichi Masuda and a particularly jovial Shigeru Ohmori, the series’ game director, about the surprising inspirations for those new Pokémon, how they went about researching the UK, and what dealing with those moments of backlash has been like.
译文
对 Game Freak 而言，这想必是一段跌宕起伏的旅程。我与资深制作人增田顺一以及格外爽朗的游戏总监大森滋聊了聊，探讨了那些新宝可梦出人意料的灵感来源、他们如何对英国进行实地采风，以及面对那些反对声浪时的感受。
伽勒尔地区形态与葱游兵：从英国巨型大葱到骑士精神
Galarian Forms & Sirfetch'd: From Massive British Leeks to Chivalric Knights
原文
The first thing I wanted to ask about is the new Pokémon you’ve already announced. The likes of Sirfetch’d and Wooloo, and Galarian Weezing, seem to have gone down especially well this time, why do you think that is?
译文
我首先想问的是你们已经公布的新宝可梦。葱游兵、毛辫羊以及伽勒尔的双弹瓦斯这次似乎特别受欢迎，您认为原因何在？
原文
The first thing to say is that we’re really happy that fans have reacted in that way, it’s something we’re really pleased with. In terms of why that might be, with Wooloo, for example, it’s just very cute, right? It’s really soft, round, fluffy, and also we created the animation so it kind of rolls around - so that’s something that just really works, it’s really cute and has caught on that way.
译文
首先，我们非常高兴粉丝们能如此反应，这让我们十分欣慰。至于原因，以毛辫羊为例，它本身就很可爱，对吧？它非常柔软、圆润、毛茸茸，我们还设计了让它滚来滚去的动画——这确实很有效，它非常可爱，因此就流行起来了。
原文
In other ways, so you mentioned Weezing for example, it might be the way they feel like they really belong in the Galar region. Weezing kind of has this, like, chimneys and industrial feel, and with the facial hair as well it’s quite a British look. So I think they really feel like they belong in Galar, and they also bring some surprises for the fans - I think that’s why they might have proved popular.
译文
另一方面，比如你提到的双弹瓦斯，可能是因为它们让人感觉真正属于伽勒尔地区。双弹瓦斯有着类似烟囱的工业感，加上胡子般的面部特征，颇具英伦风貌。所以我认为它们确实让人感觉属于伽勒尔，同时也为粉丝带来了惊喜——我想这就是它们受欢迎的原因。
原文
On Sirfetch’d in particular, it seems like it’s based on an old evolution for Farfetch’d that was in the Gold and Silver demo that was uncovered - is it based on a cancelled design that never made it into a final game?
译文
特别是关于葱游兵，它似乎基于《金／银》试玩版中发现的、大葱鸭的一个旧进化形态——它是否基于一个被取消、从未进入最终游戏的设计？
原文
[Laughs] It’s a completely new design. Really when we’re looking at the UK as an inspiration for the Galar region, we had this idea of knights, using the leek like a sword and the leaves as a shield - that’s where the idea came from. So it’s completely new.
译文
（笑）这是一个全新的设计。当我们以英国为灵感构思伽勒尔地区时，想到了骑士的概念，将大葱用作剑，葱叶用作盾——这就是创意的来源。所以它完全是新的。
原文
Can you talk about when that design came about? Was it one of the first things you wanted to do, to have a Pokémon with a sword and a shield straight away?
译文
您能谈谈这个设计是什么时候产生的吗？是不是你们最初就想设计一只直接拿着剑和盾的宝可梦？
原文
[Laughs] So when we’re making these regional forms there are different thoughts in the development team. Some of the team might be thinking, what’s going to work, what makes sense in this region, what’s a cool visual look. Other people are thinking from the gameplay perspective, what might need an evolution, what’s a cool move or an ability we want to showcase. So those two directions kind of meet in the middle and that’s how we create these new forms.
译文
[笑] 在制作地区形态时，开发团队内部会有不同的想法。有些成员会考虑什么设计可行、在这个地区是否合理、外观是否酷炫。另一些人则从游戏玩法角度出发，思考哪些宝可梦需要进化、想展示什么酷炫的招式或特性。这两种思路相互碰撞、融合，最终催生了这些新形态。
原文
Another consideration for Sirfetch’d in particular is that, when you look at leeks in the UK, they’re pretty big vegetables. They’re pretty thick! In Japan they’re much thinner, so when we saw that we thought, okay, with a leek this big, what Pokémon could carry that? And that’s how the idea of using it as a lance or a spear, and making that a Farfetch’d evolution, came about.
译文
关于葱游兵，另一个考虑是：在英国，大葱是相当大的蔬菜，非常粗壮！而在日本，大葱要细得多。所以当我们看到英国的大葱时，就想：这么大的葱，什么宝可梦能拿得动呢？于是便萌生了把它当作长枪或长矛使用，并让大葱鸭进化的想法。
原文
Okay last question about Sirfetch’d, I promise: are you going to have an equivalent that’s exclusive to Pokémon Shield like Sirfetch’d is for Sword?
译文
好，关于葱游兵的最后一个问题，我保证：你们会不会在《宝可梦 盾》中推出一个与葱游兵对应的独占宝可梦？
原文
[Both laugh] So there’s things we haven’t announced yet so that’s as far as we can say, but… please look forward to it!
译文
[两人笑] 还有一些尚未公布的内容，所以我们只能说这么多……敬请大家期待！
漫步英伦：蒸汽机车、司康饼与将现实文明转化为伽勒尔
Scouting the United Kingdom: Steam Trains, Scones, and Translating Culture
原文
Please enjoy catching lots of Sirfetch’d and trading them with people who are playing Shield!
译文
请大家尽情捕捉大量葱游兵，并与玩《宝可梦 盾》的朋友交换吧！
原文
How do you go about researching a region like the UK for games like Sword and Shield? Do you base it on your idea of what a place is like, or do you research it in-depth?
译文
你们是如何为《宝可梦 剑／盾》这样的游戏研究英国这类地区的？是基于你们对一个地方的印象，还是会进行深入调研？
原文
When we’re designing a region the first thing we have is actually a kind of concept. So this time we wanted to have a region that really felt like the theme of ‘strength’ and being the strongest was reflected in it. And so looking for regions that fit that, the UK came up. From there, we did a lot of research, we went to the UK for a research trip, we visited lots of places: we went to the countryside, we went down to Cornwall, we took a steam train, and we went to museums and historical sites. We ate fish and chips, and we had afternoon tea with scones! We really experienced the culture and tried to bring that feeling into the game.
译文
在设计一个地区时，我们首先会有一个概念。这次我们希望创造一个能真正体现“力量”和“最强”主题的地区。在寻找符合这一主题的地区时，英国浮现了出来。之后，我们进行了大量研究，前往英国实地采风，走访了许多地方：我们去了乡村，南下康沃尔，乘坐了蒸汽火车，参观了博物馆和历史遗迹。我们品尝了炸鱼薯条，享用了配有司康饼的下午茶！我们真正体验了当地文化，并努力将那种感觉融入游戏之中。
原文
There are some features in Sword and Shield that seem to be inspired by Pokémon Go - the raids, the co-op element, carrying a smartphone with you - will there be any Pokémon Go integration like there was with Let’s Go?
译文
《宝可梦 剑／盾》中有些功能似乎受到了《Pokémon GO》的启发——极巨团体战、合作元素、随身携带智能手机——那么会有像《Let’s Go》那样的《Pokémon GO》联动吗？
原文
In Pokémon Sword and Shield there’s no direct communication with Pokémon Go, but with Pokémon Home, which is launching in early 2020, you’ll be able to bring Pokémon from Pokémon Go through Pokémon Home into Pokémon Sword and Shield, provided they are in the Galar regional Pokédex.
译文
在《宝可梦 剑／盾》中，没有与《Pokémon GO》的直接联动，但通过预定于2020年初推出的《Pokémon HOME》，只要宝可梦在伽勒尔地区图鉴中，就可以从《Pokémon GO》经由《Pokémon HOME》带入《宝可梦 剑／盾》。
原文
Along those lines, how do you manage the balancing of all the different fanbases of Pokémon? There are people who watch the anime, who got into Pokémon via Pokémon Go or mobile games like Masters, who first started years ago with Red and Blue, or who just started playing - are you still trying to cater to all of them in the main, handheld games Pokémon Sword and Shield, or are you now trying to separate them out?
译文
顺着这个话题，你们如何平衡宝可梦的不同粉丝群体？有些看动画的，有些通过《Pokémon GO》或《Masters》等手游入坑的，有些多年前从《红／绿》开始的，还有些刚接触的——你们在《宝可梦 剑／盾》这样的正统掌机游戏中，是仍然试图迎合所有粉丝，还是现在打算将他们区分开来？
原文
So to really make the new games something that each fan, regardless of where they came from, can enjoy, we try to create an experience that has different entry points. The main story is something anyone can pick up and complete, but then features like the Wild Area offer deep exploration for veterans, and Max Raid Battles bring that cooperative multiplayer spirit from Pokémon Go into the core series.
译文
为了真正让新作成为每位粉丝都能享受的作品，无论他们从何处接触宝可梦，我们都努力打造一个具有多种入口的体验。主线剧情任何人都能轻松上手并通关，而旷野地带等要素则为老玩家提供了深度探索的内容，极巨团体战则将《Pokémon GO》中的合作多人精神带入了正统系列。
直面全国图鉴风波（Dexit）：创作者的落寞与次世代进化的必然代价
Confronting the National Dex Backlash: Creator Morale and Necessary Evolutionary Sacrifices
原文
What we really want to do - whether it’s someone that’s played Pokémon Go or the anime - is create that gateway to the core RPGs. Now that the Nintendo Switch is both a home console and a portable, you can play on a big television in the living room together with your family, or take it on the train. It allows so many different styles of play.
译文
我们真正想做的——无论是玩过《Pokémon GO》还是看过动画的人——是创造通往核心RPG的入口。如今Nintendo Switch既是家用游戏机又是掌机，你可以在客厅的大电视上与家人同乐，也可以带上电车游玩。它支持多种不同的游玩方式。
原文
Do you feel like it’s quite difficult to please everyone? With things like the Pokédex issue recently, or some people wanting either a more difficult or more welcoming experience, is there a difficulty or a pressure there?
译文
你们是否觉得取悦所有人相当困难？比如最近的宝可梦图鉴问题，或者有些人想要更具挑战性或更友好的体验，这其中有困难或压力吗？
原文
Yeah there is definitely a level of pressure when you’re making the game, but really we always want to surprise and delight the fans. When people have very strong reactions, it also shows just how much they love Pokémon and how deeply they care about it. We take that passion and channel it into making the best game we possibly can.
译文
是的，制作游戏时确实存在一定压力，但说实话我们总是想给粉丝带来惊喜和快乐。当人们反应强烈时，也恰恰表明他们对宝可梦的热爱之深。我们会将这份热情转化为动力，尽最大努力打造最好的游戏。
原文
Has some of that negative feedback on the Pokédex - which I’m sorry to dwell on - had much of an impact on morale at Game Freak? I know you’ve mentioned that you’re personally disappointed to not be able to include all of the Pokémon. Did the team feel saddened by the reaction at all?
译文
关于宝可梦图鉴的一些负面反馈——很抱歉一直纠结于此——是否对Game Freak的士气产生了很大影响？我知道您曾提到个人对无法收录全部宝可梦感到失望。团队是否因这些反应而感到沮丧？
原文
Of course, you know, you see these sort of negative comments and it does, as a creator, make you feel a little down. But at the same time, we have to make the decisions that are best for the long-term future of the series and the quality of the games. Developing for Nintendo Switch requires vastly more time and resource per Pokémon - high-fidelity models, expressive animations for Pokémon Camp, and dynamic battle moves.
译文
当然，你知道，我们看到这些负面评论时，作为创作者确实会感到有些沮丧。但同时，我们必须做出对系列长远未来和游戏品质最有利的决定。为Nintendo Switch开发，每只宝可梦都需要投入更多的时间和资源——高保真模型、宝可梦露营中生动的动画，以及动态的战斗招式。
呐喊队的狂热应援、玛俐与向现代开放世界演进的脚步
Team Yell, Marnie, and Pioneering Modern Open-World Mechanics
原文
So, with regards to the Pokédex issue in particular that you’ve mentioned, that was something that was very tough for us to decide, but we really felt it was necessary in order to ensure the game delivered the highest possible quality for the Pokémon that are in the game.
译文
所以，关于你提到的宝可梦图鉴问题，那对我们来说是一个非常艰难的决定，但我们确实认为这是必要的，以确保游戏为收录的宝可梦提供尽可能高的品质。
原文
It seems like Team Yell is maybe based a little on certain ‘rowdy’ fans that we can have in video games - are they a reference to some of the louder parts of community, or is it just based on something like football hooligans here in the UK?
译文
看起来呐喊队可能有点基于电子游戏中那些‘吵闹’的粉丝——他们是否参考了社区中一些更喧闹的部分，还是仅仅基于英国这里的足球流氓之类的东西？
原文
So, this time around in Pokémon Sword and Shield there is this kind of sporting element, where the Gym Challenge is treated like major stadium sports events with huge crowds and cheering fans. Team Yell is basically an over-enthusiastic group of fans who want their favourite trainer, Marnie, to win at all costs. They disrupt other challengers and make noise in hotels, but really they are devoted fans rather than evil villains.
译文
所以，这次在《宝可梦 剑／盾》中，我们加入了这种体育竞技元素，道馆挑战被设定为大型体育场赛事，有大量观众和声援的粉丝。呐喊队基本上是一群过度狂热的粉丝，他们不惜一切代价希望自己最喜欢的训练家玛俐获胜。他们会干扰其他挑战者，在酒店里制造噪音，但实际上他们是忠实的粉丝，而不是邪恶的反派。
原文
We also have this character called Marnie - and this is perhaps something a bit inspired by idol fan culture or sports fandom, where the fans form an ultra-supportive group around someone they admire.
译文
我们还有玛俐这个角色——这或许有点受到偶像明星粉丝文化或体育粉丝文化的启发，粉丝们会围绕他们崇拜的人形成一个超级支持团体。
原文
You mentioned Let’s Go and a few comments about difficulty, but you also mentioned a while back that if it was really popular, you’d consider doing other Let’s Go-style games based on others in the series. It seemed like it went down pretty well to me, in the end, so are you planning on doing more like that, carrying on a Let’s Go series alongside a main one?
译文
你提到了《Let’s Go》和一些关于难度的评论，但你也曾提到，如果它非常受欢迎，你会考虑制作基于系列其他作品的《Let’s Go》风格游戏。在我看来，它最终反响不错，那么你们是否计划继续制作类似的作品，让《Let’s Go》系列与主线系列并行发展？
原文
So, at the moment there’s no particular plans, but if the fans really like it and keep asking for it, it’s definitely something we’d consider for the future.
译文
所以，目前没有特别的计划，但如果粉丝们真的喜欢并持续要求，我们绝对会在未来考虑。
原文
Lastly, you’ve got some new features that are firsts for the series, things like autosave, open world elements, and a co-op PvE element - do you expect that trend, towards these kinds of quite modern design elements, to continue?
译文
最后，你们有一些系列首创的新功能，比如自动保存、开放世界元素和合作PvE元素——你预计这种趋向现代设计元素的趋势会继续吗？
原文
Really what we want to do with that kind of thing is first look at how Pokémon fans react to Sword and Shield. We introduced the Wild Area, free camera rotation, and seamless roaming Pokémon in the overworld. We’ll see what players enjoy most, and that feedback will directly shape what we create in the next games.
译文
关于这一点，我们真正想做的是先观察宝可梦粉丝对《宝可梦 剑／盾》的反应。我们引入了旷野地带、自由旋转视角，以及在地图上无缝遇见的宝可梦。我们将观察玩家最喜欢哪些要素，而这些反馈将直接影响我们下一部作品的创作方向。
原文
Can you highlight any particular games that were inspirations for Sword and Shield - were there any outside of Sword and Shield that inspired certain decisions in particular?
译文
您能否特别指出哪些游戏为《宝可梦 剑／盾》提供了灵感？在《剑／盾》之外，是否有某些游戏对特定设计决策产生了影响？
原文
[Laughs] So, myself I’m a big fan and play a lot of games, both Nintendo games and titles on PC and other consoles. Obviously games like The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild show the wonder of expansive open fields, and various multiplayer action games show the fun of cooperative PvE encounters. But for Pokémon, the most important thing is translating those modern feelings into the unique charm and accessibility of the Pokémon world.
译文
（笑）就我个人而言，我是个大玩家，玩过很多游戏，包括任天堂的作品，以及PC和其他主机上的游戏。显然，像《塞尔达传说 旷野之息》这样的游戏展现了广阔开放世界的奇妙，而各种多人动作游戏则展示了合作PVE遭遇的乐趣。但对于宝可梦来说，最重要的是将这些现代的感受转化为宝可梦世界独有的魅力和易上手性。
Archive record 档案信息
- Date
- 2019.10.24
- Source
- Game Freak's Junichi Masuda and Shigeru Ohmori talk inspiration, Sirfetch'd, and pressure from Pokémon fans
- People
- Eurogamer, 增田顺一, 大森滋
- Game / Work
- 未标注
- Page
- 未标注
- Language
- en
- Status
- published