Nintendo World Report 独家专访增田顺一与吉田宏信：从3D全面进化到超级超级特训

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We had the pleasure to sit down with some of the minds behind Pokémon X and Y. We recently got to talk with Hironobu Yoshida, Chief Designer at Game Freak on Pokémon X and Y and Junichi Masuda, Director at Game Freak for Pokémon X and Y about their next work and 3DS debut, Pokémon X and Y. Topics of conversation included Mega Evolutions, Pokémon Snap, Masuda’s favorite Pokémon, and some of the new battle mechanics. For the inside information on the new Pokémon games from the creators themselves, read on!

译文

我们有幸与《宝可梦 X／Y》背后的几位核心创作者进行了交流。最近，我们与Game Freak的首席设计师吉田宏信以及《宝可梦 X／Y》总监增田顺一进行了对话，讨论了他们的新作以及3DS平台首秀《宝可梦 X／Y》。话题涵盖了超级进化（Mega Evolution）、《宝可梦随乐拍》、增田最喜欢的宝可梦，以及一些新的对战机制。想了解来自创作者本人关于新宝可梦游戏的内幕信息，请继续阅读！

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NWR: The Pokémon franchise has taken such strides in connecting the world through its games. Where does the online connectivity in the series go from here? Junichi Masuda (JM): This time around since the games are coming out at the same time around the world on October 12, right on the release day, there will be a lot more people on a global scale connecting, battling and trading with each other. Up until now, games that come out in Japan first have a lot of information about them, including story details, up on the internet before international players have a chance to even get a hold of the game. But this time, there is not going to be any information on the internet, so players are going to have to connect and communicate amongst themselves.

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NWR：宝可梦系列通过其游戏在连接世界方面取得了长足进步。该系列的在线连接功能接下来将走向何方？增田顺一（JM）：这一次，由于游戏将于10月12日在全球同步发售，正好在发售日当天，全球范围内将有更多玩家互相连接、对战和交换。迄今为止，先在日本发售的游戏会有大量相关信息——包括剧情细节——在国际玩家还没来得及拿到游戏之前就出现在互联网上。但这一次，互联网上不会有什么信息，所以玩家们必须彼此连接和交流。

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NWR: Since Pokémon Conquest has gathered such a following and been a pretty big success, are there any other games that you would like to personally bring Pokémon into? Any other crossovers? JM: Not just as someone from Game Freak, but as someone who works on the Pokémon brand, I think we’re always challenging ourselves to try new things and I also feel that, like Pokémon Conquest, there are a lot of possibilities that have yet to be realized. We’re always trying new things, trying to surprise our players and allow them to have quite a bit of fun with the games. There will be further announcements as time goes on.

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NWR：既然《宝可梦+织田信长之野望》（Pokémon Conquest）已经聚集了如此多的追随者，并取得了相当大的成功，你们个人是否希望将宝可梦带入其他游戏中？还有其他跨界合作吗？增田：不仅仅是作为Game Freak的一员，而是作为从事宝可梦品牌工作的人，我认为我们一直在挑战自己尝试新事物，我也觉得，就像《宝可梦+织田信长之野望》一样，还有许多可能性尚未实现。我们总是在尝试新事物，试图给玩家带来惊喜，让他们在游戏中获得相当多的乐趣。随着时间的推移，会有更多的公告发布。

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NWR: Since you’re responsible for countless classic tracks from Pokémon, I was wondering if you were planning on continuing writing music for games rather than focus on other things such as directing? JM: In Red and Blue not only did I create all the songs in the game, I also worked on the programming and a variety of other tasks. After I started working as the director, it was really about the desire to focus on my role as director and with each game I created fewer and fewer songs. However, with that said, we have a sound team at Game Freak and they always ask me to create the battle music for the games because they feel that it’s very difficult to keep that distinctive style when it’s not me that’s making it. So this time, in Pokémon X and Y, I did the wild Pokémon battle music, trainer battle music, Gym Leader battle music and Elite Four battle music. But with each game the amount of songs I do definitely is fewer and fewer.

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NWR：鉴于您曾为《宝可梦》系列创作了无数经典曲目，我想知道您是否打算继续为游戏创作音乐，而不是专注于导演等其他工作？增田：在《宝可梦红／蓝》中，我不仅创作了游戏中的所有歌曲，还参与了编程和其他各种任务。当我开始担任总监后，我真正想要的是专注于总监的职责，因此随着每一款游戏的推出，我创作的歌曲越来越少。然而，尽管如此，我们在Game Freak有一个音效团队，他们总是请我创作游戏中的战斗音乐，因为他们觉得如果不是我来做，很难保持那种独特的风格。所以这次在《宝可梦 X／Y》中，我创作了野生宝可梦战斗音乐、训练家战斗音乐、道馆馆主战斗音乐和四天王战斗音乐。但随着每一款游戏的推出，我创作的歌曲数量确实越来越少。

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NWR: Who are your favorite Pokémon in general and who are your favorite Pokémon in X and Y? If you can’t give us names, can you give us their National Dex numbers so we can figure it out at a later date? JM: Amongst all the Pokémon, some of my favorites are Psyduck, Pichu, Victini; I tend to like the more cute Pokémon. This time, in Pokémon X and Y, my favorite at the moment is Sylveon and the reason for this is that over the course of development I’m always play-testing the game, usually from a variety of perspectives, like in the mindset of a beginner or a young child, and each time I had Sylveon in my party and I just think it’s a cute Pokémon. It’s a new Fairy-type and it’s pretty strong in battles too.

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NWR：在所有宝可梦中，您最喜欢哪些？在《宝可梦 X／Y》中，您又最喜欢哪些？如果不方便透露名字，能否提供它们的全国图鉴编号，以便我们日后推测？增田：在所有的宝可梦中，我最喜欢的有可达鸭、皮丘、比克提尼；我倾向于喜欢那些更可爱的宝可梦。这次在《宝可梦 X／Y》中，目前我最喜欢的是仙子伊布，原因是在整个开发过程中，我经常以各种角度试玩游戏，比如以新手或小孩的心态，而每次队伍中都有仙子伊布，我觉得它非常可爱。它是新加入的妖精属性宝可梦，在战斗中也很强。

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NWR: Competitive Pokémon battling has had many high barriers to entry. It seems as though you have been trying to lower these barriers with things like Super Training in order to make EV training easier and more visible to the player. However, I still feel the biggest barrier preventing more people from battling competitively is the difficult and necessary task of obtaining Pokémon with perfect IVs. In X and Y will there be a way to alter an already captured Pokémon’s IVs? JM: In general in Pokémon X and Y we’ve tried to make it a lot easier to train Pokémon. Of course, with the existing Pokémon and new Pokémon, we have a lot in the game, and we have the philosophy that we want players to be able to use a lot of different Pokémon when they’re battling and can choose which Pokémon they like and use that. Also with the Super Training we made some information more visible and made raising Pokémon a little bit easier. The example I like to use is two siblings and the older brother is always really good at battling and the younger brother keeps losing. With Super Training and being able to do these sports games as an alternative to raising your Pokémon’s stats, it’ll give the younger brother a better chance to be able to compete against his older brother. However, looking at Pokémon as living creatures, we think that it’s important to have differences between them. At competitions, it comes down to a variety of elements, like how you’ve raised your Pokémon, what moves it’s learned, combined and worked into your strategy. I don’t think it would be really that interesting if, like at the Olympics, it was just clones of the exact same competitor. I think all these different combinations of elements, and a little bit of luck as well, come into play in competitions and make them more interesting and exciting.

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NWR：竞技宝可梦对战向来存在诸多入门门槛。你们似乎一直在尝试通过“超级特训（Super Training）”等方式来降低这些门槛，让基础点数（努力值）训练变得更简单、对玩家更透明。不过，我仍然觉得阻碍更多人参与竞技对战的最大门槛，是获得拥有完美的个体值（6V）的宝可梦这一困难又必要的任务。在《X／Y》中，是否会有什么方法可以改变已经捕获的宝可梦的个体值？增田：总的来说，在《宝可梦 X／Y》中，我们试着让培育宝可梦变得轻松许多。当然，无论是现有宝可梦还是新宝可梦，游戏里都有很多，而我们秉持的理念是，希望玩家在对战时能够使用许多不同的宝可梦，可以挑选自己喜欢的宝可梦来使用。另外，通过超级特训（Super Training），我们让一些信息变得更加透明，也让培育宝可梦稍微容易了一些。我喜欢举的例子是两兄弟，哥哥总是很擅长对战，弟弟却一直输。有了超级特训（Super Training），能够通过这些小游戏来替代传统的宝可梦能力提升方式，弟弟就能有更好的机会与哥哥一较高下。不过，把宝可梦看作活生生的生物的话，我们认为它们之间存在差异是很重要的。在比赛中，胜负取决于多种要素，比如你如何培育你的宝可梦、它学会了什么招式，以及你如何将这些组合并融入到你的战略中。我不认为如果像奥运会那样，全都是完全相同选手的克隆体，会真的那么有趣。我认为正是这些不同要素的组合，再加上一点点运气，才让比赛变得更加有趣和激动人心。

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NWR: Where did the idea or inspiration for Mega Pokémon come from? JM: The idea was one of the original concepts of X and Y when we began developing the games about three years ago. We had the concept of beauty, the concept of bonds, to deepen the relationships between people and Pokémon, as well as the concept of evolution. On the concept of evolution, we were literally just trying to do something new. One thing we were saying was “evolve evolution.” Evolution is one of the defining characteristics of the Pokémon games; however, if we were to just add another stage of evolution and make it a permanent thing, that would mean there is just now stronger Pokémon than the current highest evolution stage. It would make the previous Pokémon weaker and mess with the balance. So, when thinking about how we could do something new with evolution as well as make it a lot of fun for players, we came up with the idea of using Mega Stones and making Mega Evolution just a temporary change during battle. For example, in order for Mewtwo to Mega Evolve, it will have to hold one of two Mega Stones, since there is two different versions of the Mega Evolved Mewtwo, or it could hold other regular hold items. By requiring the Mega Stone to Mega Evolve, it prevents the player from holding any other items that may be useful in battle, like Leftovers, berries or a variety of other items. What this does is add quite a bit of strategic depth to the battle, because now you have to read your opponent’s strategy if they’re using a Mega Evolving Pokémon, especially in Mewtwo’s case because since there are two different versions and the types actually change for each Mega Evolution. It really throws your opponent off and they have to decide what move they will use based off of what they think you will do with Mewtwo. To trigger Mega Evolution, you have your Pokémon holding a Mega Stone and a button on the bottom of the screen will appear that says “Mega Evolution.” Tap it, choose a move and then on that turn the Pokémon will Mega Evolve. But you could also use strategies, for example, like on the first turn, don’t Mega Evolve and trick your opponent, make them think you have a different held item, and then on the second turn, Mega Evolve and confuse them.

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NWR：超级进化（Mega Evolution）的创意或灵感源自何处？增田：这个想法是我们大约三年前开始开发《X／Y》时，最初就构思出的概念之一。我们当时有美的概念、羁绊的概念，旨在加深人与宝可梦之间的关系，同时还有进化的概念。关于进化的概念，我们其实只是想尝试一些新东西。我们当时说的一点是“让进化再进化”。进化是宝可梦游戏最核心的特征之一；然而，如果我们只是增加一个新的进化阶段并让它成为永久性的变化，那就意味着现在会出现比当前最高进化阶段更强的宝可梦。这会让之前的宝可梦变弱，并破坏平衡。所以，在思考如何能在进化上做出新意、同时让玩家觉得非常有趣时，我们想出了使用超级石、让超级进化只是在战斗中临时变化的点子。举例来说，超梦要进行超级进化，就必须携带两种超级石中的一种，因为超级进化后的超梦有两种不同版本，或者它也可以携带其他常规道具。通过要求携带超级石才能超级进化，就防止了玩家携带其他可能在战斗中很有用的道具，比如吃剩的东西、树果或其他各种道具。这样做为战斗增加了相当多的策略深度，因为现在如果对手使用了能超级进化的宝可梦，你就必须读懂对手的策略，尤其是超梦这种情况，因为有两种不同版本，而且每种超级进化后的属性都会实际发生变化。这确实会让对手措手不及，他们必须根据他们认为你会如何使用超梦，来决定自己要出什么招。要触发超级进化，你让宝可梦携带超级石，屏幕下方就会出现一个写着“超级进化”的按钮。点击它，选择招式，然后在那回合宝可梦就会超级进化。但你也可以使用策略，比如第一回合不超级进化，骗过对手，让他们以为你携带的是别的道具，然后在第二回合再超级进化，让他们措手不及。

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NWR: How does the team behind the games go about balancing both old and new Pokémon for competitive play? It seems increasingly difficult thinking of new moves, new Pokémon, new battle types and a new Pokémon type. JM: Every time at Game Freak, especially this time with Pokémon X and Y since we’ve added a new type for the first time in over ten years, we spent a lot of time and had a lot of people at Game Freak working on the battle balance spending their entire days look at all the combinations, doing a lot of experimentation and coming up with what we thought would be the perfect balance. We also have a lot of competitions within our company and players constantly playing and adjusting the balance as needed until we get to where we think is just right. Of course there is a limit to what we can do with our resources at Game Freak. So every time we release a game there’s always players making new discoveries and we’re surprised at some of the combinations people come up with. This time with Pokémon X and Y we feel that we got it right with probably the perfect balance. But of course, we’re not going to know until the games are released. That’s why I’m really excited to see the World Championships in 2014. See just what kinds of strategies players have. I think if we see a wide variety of Pokémon being used we’ll consider ourselves successful.

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NWR：游戏开发团队是如何在竞技对战中平衡新旧宝可梦的？考虑到要设计新招式、新宝可梦、新对战机制以及新的宝可梦属性，这似乎越来越困难了。增田：在Game Freak，每一次——尤其是这次《宝可梦 X／Y》，因为这是我们十多年来首次新增属性——我们都投入了大量时间，许多Game Freak的员工整天专注于对战平衡的调整，研究所有可能的组合，进行大量实验，力求找到我们认为最完美的平衡。我们公司内部也会举办很多比赛，玩家们不断对战并根据需要调整平衡，直到我们觉得恰到好处为止。当然，以Game Freak的资源来说，我们能做的终究有限。所以每次游戏发售后，玩家们总会有新发现，他们想出的某些组合常常让我们感到惊讶。这次《宝可梦 X／Y》我们觉得应该做对了，可能达到了完美的平衡。但当然，在游戏正式发售之前我们无法确定。正因如此，我非常期待2014年的世界锦标赛，想看看玩家们会用什么策略。如果我们能看到丰富多样的宝可梦被使用，我们就会认为自己成功了。

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NWR: On average how many Pokémon designs get thrown out over the development of the game? Have any rejected designs come back in subsequent generations and if so, which ones? Hironobu Yoshida (HY): With each game we are always working with a different theme with the Pokémon for the generation. And the designers themselves, depending on the time, they’ll have different things they’re passionate about and different things they want to try. Although we come up with ten times the amount of ideas for Pokémon that make it into a game, even the ones that get rejected don’t typically come back in future games because we’re trying new things and match the theme of the new game. The things we’re passionate about are different than they were in the past. Also, in terms of the design process, even once an idea is selected, even from that point the design changes quite a bit since it takes about six months to a year to finalize a Pokémon design.

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NWR：在游戏开发过程中，平均有多少宝可梦设计会被淘汰？有没有被否决的设计在后来的世代中重新启用？如果有的话，是哪些？吉田宏信（HY）：每一代游戏，我们都会围绕不同的主题来设计宝可梦。而设计师们本身也会随着时间推移，对不同的东西充满热情，想要尝试不同的方向。虽然我们构思出的宝可梦创意数量是最终进入游戏的十倍，但即便是被否决的创意，通常也不会在后续作品中重新启用，因为我们在不断尝试新事物，并且要契合新作的主题。我们所热衷的东西已经和过去不同了。另外，从设计流程来说，即便一个创意被选中，从那一刻起设计也会发生相当大的变化，因为最终确定一个宝可梦的设计大约需要半年到一年的时间。

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NWR: Follow up question- what’s the theme of this Pokémon game? What’s the theme to Pokémon X and Y? HY: In terms of creating the Pokémon designs, what we really focused on, this time especially, was giving each Pokémon, even more than ever, a defining characteristic or something that makes them stand out and be pretty unique.

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NWR：追问一下，这款宝可梦作品的主题是什么？《宝可梦 X／Y》的主题是什么？吉田：就宝可梦的设计创作而言，我们这次尤其着重于让每一只宝可梦，比以往更甚地，拥有一个鲜明的特征，或者某种能让它们脱颖而出、相当独特的东西。

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NWR: Have you ever thought about using the Wii U Game Pad for a new iteration of Pokémon Snap? JM: Not really speaking as Game Freak, but as part of the Pokémon brand, at the Pokémon Brand we’re always challenging ourselves to try new things, to come up with new ways to surprise our fans and come up with new ways to play the game. So with Pokémon Snap I don’t think doing the exact same thing on Wii U would be the right way to go. We’d really have to come up with some new ideas to make it surprising and interesting for the players. If we were able to do that, then yes, I think we’d have something to announce.

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NWR：您是否曾考虑过利用Wii U Game Pad来开发《宝可梦随乐拍》的新作？增田：严格来说，并非以Game Freak的身份，而是作为宝可梦品牌的一部分，在宝可梦品牌下，我们始终挑战自我，尝试新事物，想出新方法来给粉丝带来惊喜，探索新的游戏玩法。因此，对于《宝可梦随乐拍》，我认为在Wii U上简单复刻并不是正确的方向。我们确实需要提出一些新创意，让游戏对玩家来说既惊喜又有趣。如果我们能做到这一点，那么是的，我想我们会有消息要宣布。

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NWR: Great to hear! If we can know, what’s next for you guys? Pokémon Z? The fabled Hoenn remake? JM: Of course at Game Freak we’re always thinking about what people want. I always get lots of request on Twitter to make certain games. Right now we’re still focused on Pokémon X and Y. It’s not released so we’re still unsure if it will be received well, if people will have fun playing. So right now we need to see the success of Pokémon X and Y before we move on to anything else. NWR: For what it’s worth, we’re looking forward to it immensely! JM: Me too!

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NWR：很高兴听到这个消息！如果可以透露的话，你们接下来有什么计划？《宝可梦 Z》？传说中的丰缘重制版？增田：当然，在Game Freak，我们始终在思考玩家们的需求。我经常在Twitter上收到大量请求，希望我们制作某些特定游戏。目前，我们仍专注于《宝可梦 X／Y》。游戏尚未发布，所以我们还不确定它是否会受到好评，玩家们是否会玩得开心。因此，现在我们需要先看到《宝可梦 X／Y》的成功，然后才会考虑其他任何事情。 NWR：无论如何，我们都无比期待！增田：我也是！

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NWR: Who chooses which Pokémon will appear in Super Smash Bros.? Does Sakurai go to you with specific ideas, or does he ask your team personally for suggestions? Can you explain the process? JM: I talk with Sakurai in real life and we’re connected on twitter so we’re in communication. With the first Smash Bros. game he was first designing the game and he came to us with a presentation. He wanted to feature Pokémon in the game as well. So he came to us first to get the approval that Pokémon could be featured in the game as well as asked our advice saying, “What Pokémon could be used in it?” We helped him select what Pokémon would be best fit into the mix and match the world of Pokémon. We’re thinking about what Pokémon fans around the world would really like to see the most. That’s the basis of our selection process.

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NWR：在《任天堂明星大乱斗》中，是由谁来决定哪些宝可梦会登场呢？是樱井先生带着具体的想法来找您，还是他亲自向您的团队征求意见？能否请您说明一下这个过程？增田：我和樱井在现实生活中会交流，在推特上也有联系，所以我们一直保持着沟通。在第一部《任天堂明星大乱斗》中，他最初设计游戏时，带着一份企划演示来找我们。他希望游戏中也能有宝可梦登场。所以他先来找我们，一方面是取得将宝可梦纳入游戏的许可，另一方面也是征求我们的建议，问“哪些宝可梦可以用进去？”我们协助他挑选了最适合融入其中、与宝可梦世界相匹配的宝可梦。我们会考虑全世界的宝可梦粉丝最希望看到哪些宝可梦。这就是我们选择过程的基本准则。

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NWR: How come the Azure Flute was never made available in Diamond/Pearl/Platinum? JM: When we were first developing the games we thought about including it. I thought it would be fun. But once the game was complete and released, I changed my mind down the road and didn’t think it would be – I thought it would be confusing for people and kind of hard to understand how it worked. So I eventually made the decision not to distribute it.

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NWR：为什么《宝可梦钻石／珍珠／白金》中从未提供天界之笛？增田：在最初开发这些游戏时，我们曾考虑将其纳入。我觉得那会很有趣。但游戏完成后并发布后，我后来改变了主意，认为它不会——我觉得它会让人们感到困惑，而且有点难以理解其运作方式。所以最终我决定不将其分发。

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NWR: Our wrap up question – We’re really looking forward to this. I know both of us are. We would like to know, from anyone in the room, if there’s anything that they want to say personally to the fans. Anything we should look out for? Easter eggs, perhaps? JM: A couple of things. First, in regards to the story, this time we made it an adventure where you travel with four friends and really get to know them over the course of the adventure. I really hope people enjoy the story we have crafted and look forward to it. Another feature of the game that I hope people enjoy is the Mega Evolutions. This time you get the Red and Blue starters from the Professor and you can take those to their Mega evolutions, which I think people will enjoy. The Professor is researching what they call “the greatest mystery of the Kalos region,” which is Mega Evolution. So that’s why he gives you one of these three original starters. Also, since this is going to be a global simultaneous release on October 12, it’s going to be the first time, on a global scale, that everyone will really be connected with Pokémon. I want to look at it as a worldwide Pokémon Day. I’m really hoping people pick up the games and trade and battle with each other. One thing we did with the Pokédex this time was there’s going to be multiple Pokédex entries. So if you trade a Pokémon that comes from a different language in the game you’ll unlock that entry in the Pokédex for that language. So there is kind of another element to trading. HY: From a graphic design perspective Mega evolutions are something we spent a lot of time on. It was a big challenge to take these refined designs to a new extreme. Also, the move to full 3D the visuals are very different this time. I think players are really going to enjoy that. At the same time at Game Freak we’re big fans of 2D graphics as well. So there are some elements in there that I think fans of 2D will appreciate as well. NWR: Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us; we’re both huge fans since the beginning! Masuda: Thank you!

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NWR：作为我们的收尾问题——我们对此非常期待。我知道我们俩都是。我们想了解，在座的各位是否有任何想亲自对粉丝说的话？有什么值得我们留意的吗？彩蛋之类的？增田：有几件事。首先，关于故事，这次我们制作了一场与四位朋友一同旅行的冒险，并在冒险过程中真正了解他们。我真心希望大家能喜欢我们精心打造的故事，并对此充满期待。我希望大家喜欢的另一个游戏特色是超级进化。这次你可以从博士那里获得红蓝版初始宝可梦，并能让它们进行超级进化，我想大家会喜欢的。博士正在研究所谓的“卡洛斯地区最大的谜团”，即超级进化。因此，他才会给你这三只最初的初始宝可梦之一。此外，由于本作将于10月12日全球同步发售，这将是首次在全球范围内，所有人都能真正通过宝可梦连接起来。我想把它看作一个世界性的宝可梦日。我真心希望人们能拿起游戏，互相交换和对战。这次我们在宝可梦图鉴上做的一件事是，将会有多个图鉴条目。所以如果你交换了一只来自游戏中不同语言的宝可梦，你将解锁该语言对应的图鉴条目。这算是交换的另一个要素。吉田：从图形设计的角度来看，超级进化是我们花费了大量时间的事情。将这些精致的设计推向新的极致是一个巨大的挑战。此外，转向全3D后，这次的视觉效果非常不同。我认为玩家会非常喜欢。同时，在Game Freak，我们也是2D图形的忠实粉丝。所以其中也有一些我认为2D粉丝会欣赏的元素。 NWR：非常感谢你们抽出时间与我们交谈；我们俩从最初就是超级粉丝！增田：谢谢！

Nintendo World Report 独家专访增田顺一与吉田宏信：从3D全面进化到超级超级特训

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